It is of course in any government's interest to have a large pool of unemployed people they can hold over the heads of the employed in order to make them accept lower wages, worse conditions and so on. That's how I've ended up working as a lorry driver, carrying hazardous freight and working at night, at an average of around £7.50 an hour. When I started driving lorries twelve years ago, on days and non haz freight, I was earning £7 basic, with overtime on top ...
I can ask my boss for a rise of course, but his response is always "well, you're lucky to have a job at all". Which is true enough, but I still believe that the whole system, which deliberately stacks the odds against the working classes (for want of a better term) stinks. And as I said above, it's all the fault of that hateful Thatcher woman whose funeral we've just wasted a large sum of money on during a time of supposed austerity.

my english neighbour in portugal claims that the prices of groceries in portugal are higher now than in england but it seems he forgot that after selling his house in england he could buy one in portugal and had enough money left to live from for many years to come
anyway i dont care about the price of groceries as long i can have a 3 course meal including wine and coffee for 6 or 7 euro's!
but of course this 7 euros have a different value for a portugese worker who earns less than 500 euros a month ( portugese minimum wage )than for somebody from a northern european country who makes this in a week
it is very hard to compare costs of living of different countries, even taking in to account the difference of salaries, because in a particular country certain things can be cheaper and others more expensive than in the country you are comparing with

Not wanting to get into a political dispute, but I have to say that my dad drove wagons for a living and he got paid for how many loads he delivered,including hand shoveling coal onto the back of a high sided truck,then having a second job to make ends meet and give his family a decent standard of living.So I've been around transport most of my life.On top of that both my grandfathers have been down the pit,when you got paid just for the coal nothing else. I served in the police during the miners strike. I also lived in an old mining village and my neighbor worked in mining. Yes he went to work in an effort to keep the pit open and safe as an engineer, but suffered threats and abuse for his trouble,from the very people he was trying to protect.As for my part I was sent all over the country away from my family. Yes that was my job to protect life and property,the police were not sent to subdue the miners, but to up hold the oath we all took. Yes there were some that over stepped the mark, but would you like to stand in front of a violent mob,throwing bags of urine,shit,house bricks,bottles and petrol bombs at you,with only a plastic shield and a helmet to protect you I doubt it! Oh yeah what about the firing of Hilti type nail guns into police vans is that ok to? Lets not forget the threats abuse and violence used against other members of the mining community,buy their own kind!
Having raised these points I have to say that for the majority of the time the miners I came up against across the country were honorable people. I have to say there were many times I feared both for my safety and that of my fellow officers. The rights and wrongs of the dispute were not justified by any of the things I witnessed and was subjected to. nor can you lay the blame for those persons hell bent on violence at the door of the government of the day. That is my personnel experience and view,each is entitled to their's

Oh by the way I don't vote as I have no confidence in any of them

Banjo, I don't know if that post was in response to my post above, but I wouldn't want anyone thinking I was condoning violence against anyone, nor that I would be so naive as to try and blame any government for the actions of a few violent individuals lobbing bricks at the police. However, I still believe that Thatcherism (which sadly has not died with her) is directly responsible for many of the wrongs in today's "fuck-you-I'm-all-right" society. I also speak as the grandson of a Barnsley coal miner, and I also agree that violence is not the answer. Although if you gave me a dark alley with podgy Dave and that idiot Osbourne in it, I could be persuaded to change my view ...

Rhythm Thief your post and others were just a catalyst,I felt I needed to say a few things about some of the situations I found myself in. A bit of a rant really there are many things I would like to say but in the cold light of day I would rather forget them. Please don't think I was having a go at you or any others. I have been retired since 2007 and I don't miss it one bit, it's just that the whole Thatcher thing has raised some memories, maybe best left as such. Besides I'm to busy enjoying my life in France and England to much. Perhaps I have withdrawal symptoms as my 2Cv is in the UK. Regards Banjo ( Bob )

Just catching up on these threads...I think George was asked once on Parkinson something like "well George, where did it all go wrong?" to which he replied, in a somewhat jovial manner as he had been enjoying a certain amount of, eh erm, refreshment in the Green Room, something like "Ive played football, Ive traveled the world and Ive shagged two Miss Worlds - it really went wrong didnt it!"

I feel I must also add my 'rant'. I've just returned from the UK after paying a flying visit so I could celebrate the death of Thatcher.
I don't read news papers but somebody pointed out one remark in the press 'the small number of protesters were drowned out by the military bands and the applause of the crowd'
There was a substantial amount of us (and incidentally I was surprised on the numbers of Thatcher followers, I expected there to be many,many more) we were drowned out by the military bands but not by the 'applause of supporters'

Somewhere amongst these threads somebody said Thatcher was right,

Supporting Pinochet? Supporting Apartheid? Thatcher and Khmer Rouge?
Declaring Nelson Mandella a terrorist? Destroying whole UK communities?
ALL RIGHT? This woman bears the responsibility of the despair and deaths of thousands across the world.

I'm no supporter of Blair and the public are rightly informed of his dirty tricks but Thatcher is portrayed as a national hero.

On the 2cv front Thatcher has left her mark here. I'm now over 60, back in the 70's and early 80's you'd be hard pressed to find a 2cver who wasn't a ' leftie do gooder' and the 2cv was our chosen mode of transport. **
It was a politcal statement!
Most younger people haven't got the time or energy to take an active part in politics. They are too busy either trying to keep their jobs, working long hours in stressful circumstances, paying mortgages and credit cards that became so easily available after Thatcher.
I think it was Banjo who said that we are so easily replaceable our employers don't give a monkies toss. For every one employee there are 20 to take our place. Love or hate the unions they got us the conditions which are gradually being eroded away.

This demo was probably my last. But it was f*****g brilliant, I'd been waiting for her death for years.There you go, there's my rant.
(**Apolgies to any lefty, 2cv, political activists out there. Good luck)

I have tried to keep away from the Thatcher thread but - it's very sad to see that a death of an old woman, regardless of what may have happened in the past, has provoked such unnecessary vitriol.
Sure, she destroyed some communities in the the 80's but in reality someone, no matter what colour or creed of politics, would have been forced to do the same thing - coal mining in deep seam pits was tragically costly, both in terms of human life and subsidies from central government as did the bulk of the steel industry. OK, a bit of joined up thinking was probably needed prior to closing the pits, in terms of providing employment opportunities, but Scargill forced the governments hand to act quickly to avoid the same fate as the previous Conservative government. We have to remember that at that time, the late 70's/early 80's, democracy itself was under threat by self proclaimed, non elected, non democratic, union leaders who felt THEY could dictate what course a democratically elected government should take. I am broadly agnostic when it comes to politics but I think that our hard fought right for suffrage pre-dates the so called rights that unions have delivered in the past and to be ruled by a bunch of ill educated, intelligencia hating bully boys was one step too far.
It is very sad when any one dies but to show no respect by demonstrating is pretty low....

Here,here.Totally agree.

She deserves credit for her effort...9