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Self-adjusting suspension height?
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Author:  beerbunny [ April 12th, 2011, 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Self-adjusting suspension height?
Slightly confused about my suspension height; the front was low on both sides, so I adjusted it. Looked okay after I did it, so I took the car for a 5 mile spin. When I got home again, the front offside had dropped a bit, but I think that was probably because I didn't bounce the car up and down after making the adjustment, before checking it. So I adjusted it again, bounced it vigorously up and down a few times, still okay, went out for another 5 mile run, got back, still okay. All this was on Saturday.

I've been out in the car a couple of times over the last couple of days, totalling maybe 50 miles and when I got home today, the front offside seemed to be drooping again. I've just checked it, and it's about 15mm lower than it was on Saturday.

Does anybody have any suggestions? The tyre pressures are okay, btw.

Thanks,

John
Author:  Sean [ April 12th, 2011, 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-adjusting suspension height?
remembering the suspension is linked so when you wind down the front the back will drop too its a fine juggling act

and it can be a real pain to sort out one thats been done badly as it can be loaded up on diagonal corners( and thats what it felt like)

put it up on 4 axe stands so all 4 wheels are off the ground ( like the orange one) then un tension everything so the knife edges are loose in the tie rod eyes then do them up till touching. drop it to its wheels and wind it up gradually and evenly all round bouncing it before measuring.

its worth doing Kens tip of jacking it centrally at the back and making sure both fronts settle out evenly.
Author:  ken [ April 12th, 2011, 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-adjusting suspension height?
John,
out of interest, what 'under chassis' measurements are you aiming for?
Unless you're going across ploughed fields regularly, I find the 190mm front/280mm rear to be on the high side, so I usually aim at around 20mm/25mm lower all round.

As regards this 'self height adjustment', have you had a look at the rubber end stops at each end of the suspension canisters?
Some of the replacements on offer are made from rubber which is far too soft and goes out of shape very quickly.
When the car is standing on level ground with the suspension correctly adjusted, the front end stops should be slightly compressed and the rear ones free to rotate...

ken.





beerbunny wrote:
Slightly confused about my suspension height; the front was low on both sides, so I adjusted it. Looked okay after I did it, so I took the car for a 5 mile spin. When I got home again, the front offside had dropped a bit, but I think that was probably because I didn't bounce the car up and down after making the adjustment, before checking it. So I adjusted it again, bounced it vigorously up and down a few times, still okay, went out for another 5 mile run, got back, still okay. All this was on Saturday.

I've been out in the car a couple of times over the last couple of days, totalling maybe 50 miles and when I got home today, the front offside seemed to be drooping again. I've just checked it, and it's about 15mm lower than it was on Saturday.

Does anybody have any suggestions? The tyre pressures are okay, btw.

Thanks,

John
Author:  J-dub [ April 12th, 2011, 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-adjusting suspension height?
not to mention if you park on lock the car will lean to one side.. i find that anyway
Author:  beerbunny [ April 12th, 2011, 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-adjusting suspension height?
Quote:
put it up on 4 axe stands so all 4 wheels are off the ground ( like the orange one) then un tension everything so the knife edges are loose in the tie rod eyes then do them up till touching. drop it to its wheels and wind it up gradually and evenly all round bouncing it before measuring.

Good grief, that sounds like an awful lot of work. Plus, I'll have to buy another 2 axle stands. Still, a man's gotta do.....

Quote:
out of interest, what 'under chassis' measurements are you aiming for?
Unless you're going across ploughed fields regularly, I find the 190mm front/280mm rear to be on the high side, so I usually aim at around 20mm/25mm lower all round.

As regards this 'self height adjustment', have you had a look at the rubber end stops at each end of the suspension canisters?
Some of the replacements on offer are made from rubber which is far too soft and goes out of shape very quickly.
When the car is standing on level ground with the suspension correctly adjusted, the front end stops should be slightly compressed and the rear ones free to rotate...

Sean suggested I drop the rear by 20mm each side; I haven't done that yet as I wanted to see what the car was like set up 'by the book'.

I don't make a habit of going across ploughed fields, but the way the roads are around here, I'd probably get a smoother ride if I did. ;) What benefit would I get from lowering the suspension? A lower C of G, I guess, anything else?

No, I haven't checked the end stops. I'll do that tomorrow.

Quote:
not to mention if you park on lock the car will lean to one side.. i find that anyway

When I pull into my driveway, my front wheels end up more-or-less straight ahead, so it's not that. Shame really, it's always good to find a simple solution. Instead of which, I'm going to have to give Sean's complicated sounding method a go. :( Oh well.

Thank you all, gentlemen.

John
Author:  beerbunny [ April 12th, 2011, 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-adjusting suspension height?
Sean, I just had a thought. After I've put the car on 4 axle stands, made the preliminary adjustments and dropped it back onto its wheels, do I have to keep jacking it up to make the adjustments? That was my first thought, and that's why I received your suggestion with not much enthusiasm. Well, none really. It would be a lot easier if I could just go round the car making a small adjustment at each corner. Incidentally, I did eventually find the flats on the tie-rods. Not much use though (possibly because I don't have a cranked 9mm spanner, whatever one of them is), I went back to the mole wrench on the mushroom weld.

Cheers,

John
Author:  Sean [ April 12th, 2011, 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-adjusting suspension height?
its not complicated , the complicated bit ,as always, is removing any error that was set in when the car was put together. Once you back it all off wind it up so the knife edges just make contact with the shackles, once dropped back on its wheels youll find its only going to be a few mm away from the ideal-which is 20mm lower than the "book" youll find it corners a lot flatter and evenly.
Author:  beerbunny [ April 13th, 2011, 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-adjusting suspension height?
Quote:
Unless you're going across ploughed fields regularly, I find the 190mm front/280mm rear to be on the high side, so I usually aim at around 20mm/25mm lower all round.

Quote:
put it up on 4 axe stands so all 4 wheels are off the ground ( like the orange one) then un tension everything so the knife edges are loose in the tie rod eyes then do them up till touching. drop it to its wheels and wind it up gradually and evenly all round bouncing it before measuring.

Right. Sean I slackened everything off as per your recommendation, dropped the car back to the ground, bounced it up and down a few times. As I only have 2 axle stands, I did it one side at a time. When I checked the heights, they were all almost exactly at Ken's recommended figures; the fronts were a little high. Took the car out for a spin, and checked the heights again. This time, they were all almost exactly at the values suggested by Ken; driver's side front was about 5mm low, which I've now adjusted out. Fingers crossed, that that's more or less it.

A couple of black marks for 2CV City; 2 of the shock absorbers were fitted upside-down, rear nearside and front offside. The rear one was easy to sort, the front slightly more difficult. Something I noticed here was that the washers on the mountings weren't as shown in the Haynes manual; instead of 2 shouldered washers (which make sense), there's a 3-4mm thick washer with an angled (45deg?) inner bore on the inside of all the mounting bushes. I've refitted these with the angled bore facing away from the shock absorber, as I figured that having them the other way might well result in the washer pressing against the outer part of the shock absorber mounting bush. I don't think it's ideal though. If I could I'd draw you a picture, as I don't think my explanation is very good. On the outside, under the nut/bolt head (delete as appropriate), there's a thin plain washer.

The other black mark was the state of the suspension adjustment; The offside rear tie-rod was done up very tight, the others weren't as bad, but there didn't appear to have been any knowledge of how to do the job on the part of whoever did it.

As you said, Sean, the car now corners flatter and the suspension seems softer and better able to cope with severe potholes and bumps in the road.

Once again, thanks to you all.

John
Author:  Sean [ April 13th, 2011, 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-adjusting suspension height?
the shocker pins have a rolled edge oh wait your on 2cv city with M12 bolts
the deep cut out was to accomodate the shouldered pin and the flatter side goes towards the shock as you have worked out....and many cant.

Were getting there with it!

and random shock fitment is more common than it should be - even ive done it

Roof down yet? weather not looking too great today but a week of perfect 2cv weather just passed.
Author:  beerbunny [ April 13th, 2011, 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-adjusting suspension height?
So those thick washers have got a legitimate raison d'etre then. I thought it was maybe a 2CV City bodge.

This may seem like a dumb question, but with all this jacking up and down I'm doing, I keep finding bits of what I assume is zinc on the part of the jack that is in contact with the chassis; would it be a good idea to Waxoyl these parts of the chassis?

Btw, I've bought a turkey baster and I'm going to try to adapt it to squirt some vegetable oil into the suspension cans. Any comments on any of that?

Quote:
Roof down yet? weather not looking too great today but a week of perfect 2cv weather just passed.

Oh yes, I went out for a run with the top down on Saturday (Sunday? :? ). Still a bit chilly, but an enjoyable experience.

Cheers,

John
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