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Smiffy
Firing on two.
Joined: October 23rd, 2009, 10:41 pm Posts: 2356 Location: Worcestershire
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 Re: Paris banger ban
With respect, this EU bashing is a bit misguided. True, the EU signed up to Kyoto (unlike the US, Brazil, China, India) and is committed to reducing emissions. Of those emissions, energy supply (ie creating the fuels that we use to power our homes and businesses) is the biggest polluter, followed by transport. So, yes, reducing emissions of transport is on the agenda, but taking a few old bangers off the streets of one city will not really dent the figures much. Maybe it will clear the air locally, and maybe there is a target for making Parisian air cleaner, but that's not part of Kyoto, and it's not part of EU stipulations either, as far as I'm aware. However, from what I can deduce, the situation in Paris has got nothing to do with "emissions crap". It has more to do with: 1. The fact that central Paris is a prostitute to tourism, and is largely populated by rich people, and so the mayor wants to make the city as super-duper and pretty as possible, so that the rich people don't feel threatened by nasty poor folk, who we're all supposed to despise these days, and so that rich non-Europeans don't get freaked out when they visit the city and find out that it's not quite as beautiful as it was in the brochure. 2. The parlous state of the French car industry. The French are merding themselves about the fact that Peugeot-Citroen are in deep trouble, as are all middle-market carmakers in Europe. Ford's Genk plant is closing. Here's an example of how bad things are: Mondeo production has collapsed to under 90,000 units per year from a high of around 300,000 at the turn of the century. Peugeot's factories are massively over capacity. A big contraction of car building in western Europe is coming. Forcing a number of old bangers off Parisian streets is a classic case of localism gone mad. It creates the perception amongst local Parisians, concerned about the gloomy economic news, that their mayor is doing all he can to help French people keep their jobs, based on the logic that taking old cars out of the economy will force some people to get rid of their old car and buy a newer one. What would they buy? Most likely a mid-market European car. As perception would have it, that would free up people further up the economic food chain to buy a newer mid-market car, ie stimulate demand. This is obviously bollocks, though. Taking a few cars off the road will not save the European mid-range car industry: the reason for the collapse is far more structural, and has been a long time coming. Cleansing the streets of bangers will gain support from the concerned bourgeoisie, who will be happy that nasty smelly old vehicles will be forced out of Paris. Most of those who live in central Paris are rich and aspirational, and those ghastly old chokers remind them of those nasty scary people who come from les banlieues to rob and terrorise them and sell contraband to their kids! So, oppose the banger ban... but don't blame it on the EU.
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November 14th, 2012, 11:40 am |
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Jonathan
Firing on two.
Joined: January 1st, 2009, 7:37 pm Posts: 4708 Location: Disunited Kingdom
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 Re: Paris banger ban
And over here the rich (ie University educated) are the ones who seem to be fuelling an upsurge in the prices of 'classic cars', especially that funny little French car they had at uni in the 1980s. 
_________________ 1988 built (1989 F-registered) Citroën 2CV-Six 2013 (63-Plate) VW Golf SE 1.4TSI BMT DSG7 1932 Morris Minor Open Two-Seater (The £100 car).

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November 14th, 2012, 12:27 pm |
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Smiffy
Firing on two.
Joined: October 23rd, 2009, 10:41 pm Posts: 2356 Location: Worcestershire
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 Re: Paris banger ban
Jonathan wrote: And over here the rich (ie University educated) are the ones who seem to be fuelling an upsurge in the prices of 'classic cars', especially that funny little French car they had at uni in the 1980s.  Irony upon irony! 
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November 14th, 2012, 12:40 pm |
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ben
Firing on two.
Joined: November 28th, 2009, 9:48 pm Posts: 636
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 Re: Paris banger ban
Fair enough..i probably generalised a bit with regard to this particular issue; i have a foot in the bike world and get updates from groups like MAG who are constantly fighting draconian anti-bike legislation from non riding faceless suits ticking boxes in Brussels ,so immediately assumed that this probably stemmed from there as well. In my defence, most fun-banning usually does stem from there 
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November 14th, 2012, 2:21 pm |
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ben
Firing on two.
Joined: November 28th, 2009, 9:48 pm Posts: 636
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 Re: Paris banger ban
toomany2cvs wrote: ben wrote: Good point it doesn't mention the eu to be fair, but France has to meet eu driven targets for emissions s'funny. I thought the Kyoto protocol and similar emission targets were global. "They are part of a plan to turn Paris into a Low Emission Zone, cutting emissions by 30 per cent by 2015. Failure to comply with European air pollution norms could see Brussels slap a 100 million-euro fine on France in 2016. "Funnily enough I don't recall mentioning kyoto or seeing it in the article but i did see this bit, so i take that back, it does mention the eu.
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November 14th, 2012, 2:25 pm |
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Smiffy
Firing on two.
Joined: October 23rd, 2009, 10:41 pm Posts: 2356 Location: Worcestershire
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 Re: Paris banger ban
ben wrote: toomany2cvs wrote: ben wrote: Good point it doesn't mention the eu to be fair, but France has to meet eu driven targets for emissions s'funny. I thought the Kyoto protocol and similar emission targets were global. "They are part of a plan to turn Paris into a Low Emission Zone, cutting emissions by 30 per cent by 2015. Failure to comply with European air pollution norms could see Brussels slap a 100 million-euro fine on France in 2016. "Funnily enough I don't recall mentioning kyoto or seeing it in the article but i did see this bit, so i take that back, it does mention the eu. Maybe, but those two sentences are not necessarily related. And anyway, there's no way on god's earth that banning old bangers from Paris is going to make much difference. Forget the EU and concentrate on the fact that the mayor's just being a good old fashioned dickhead.
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November 14th, 2012, 2:37 pm |
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ben
Firing on two.
Joined: November 28th, 2009, 9:48 pm Posts: 636
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 Re: Paris banger ban
Oh i agree ,and that it is not going to make an iota of difference whether it came from an eu target or an incompetent buffoon mayor. Hence my easy target ,box ticking comments. Either way, people like this are creating soulless, clinical,boring places and aren't doing anything of any real consequence, such as tackling their diesel fumes issue for instance. (and no, i've no intention of driving my smelly,diesel BX through Paris  )
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November 14th, 2012, 2:40 pm |
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2CViking
viking bastard
Joined: April 18th, 2009, 11:43 am Posts: 2424 Location: Meneac, Bretagne France
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 Re: Paris banger ban
So it is working in Germany. The french are just copiing the germans to reduce harmful exhaust material.
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November 14th, 2012, 2:56 pm |
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banjo
Firing on two.
Joined: June 5th, 2009, 9:17 am Posts: 747 Location: Staffs & France
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 Re: Paris banger ban
Oddly having been to and stayed in Paris a few times I can count on one hand how many 2cv's and the like I saw whilst there.Which tends to suggest that even if there was such a ban it woud have little or no effect on the health of Parisians.If they kept the Gauloises out of their mouth and slowed the pace of life,this would exstend their life expectancy more than the six months lost by emmisions. Mind there's many French outside Paris that might like to shorten the Parisians life more!! 
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November 14th, 2012, 3:07 pm |
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ChrisW
Firing on two.
Joined: February 21st, 2012, 9:01 pm Posts: 1136 Location: Avranches, Sud Manche, France
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 Re: Paris banger ban
A few Parisians have second homes near me and I know of 2 that have 2cv's also when I went to Isle de Rance they were everywhere and the older rougher the better (something about rough is chic - same with cycles there). Having old cars not allowed within the inner ring road - how can they police it? How many people would it effect? Everytime I go to Paris we go by train as easier and cheaper.
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November 14th, 2012, 5:47 pm |
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